Whenever you consider survival television exhibits, you’d be forgiven for occupied with the likes of Man vs Wild or Bare And Afraid, however the grandfather of these exhibits, and others like them, is Survivorman.
Les Stroud, higher often called the one and solely “Survivorman” began a brand new period of nature television and survival exhibits when the primary episode aired in April 2005, and he’s getting down to begin one other new period in media, although this time in video games.
VR video games, particularly, as he’s teamed up with Cream Productions to convey Survivorman VR: The Descent to life, a PlayStation VR2 title that virtually places you within the starring position of an episode of Survivorman.
PSU acquired to sit down down with Stroud to speak about this coming title, and what he hopes Survivorman VR: The Descent will do for individuals who dive into the expertise.
This dialog has been barely edited for readability.
Interview – Les Stroud Talks About Bringing Survival To Your Residing Room As soon as Once more With Survivorman VR: The Descent
PSU: Firstly, thanks a lot for taking the time to talk as we speak, I really feel inclined to start by saying that I’m an enormous fan. I acquired flashbacks to watching your present as a child after I was first studying about Survivorman VR: The Descent. Now I’ve been re-watching episodes, watching others for the primary time, and it’s been actually cool to look again on the present.
Stroud:
Properly you already know, your story is changing into fairly frequent, and splendidly so. There’s so many individuals I meet which can be most likely roughly round your age and you already know, additionally some who at the moment are having youngsters of their very own and will likely be saying ‘I watch it with my 5 yr previous son or daughter.’
And it’s a thrill actually, as a result of I imply, I used to be doing new episodes for 18 years, and there’s an entire era there of people like your self, and it’s nice. I stumble upon individuals on a regular basis that can say, ‘Man I grew up watching your present and it was my solely connection to my Dad’ or this and that. Find it irresistible. I completely adore it.
PSU: Talking of previous episodes, I re-watched the pilot episode and the unique documentary it was based mostly on. Thanks for having all of them up on YouTube, it was nice to observe them and to be occupied with Survivorman VR now on its method. How did the thought for Survivorman VR: The Descent come about? Or simply Survivorman VR? With a title like that it sounds to me like there’s going to be extra coming sooner or later.
Stroud:
To start with, it’s been a thrill to place all my stuff up on YouTube and simply make it free for everyone with every little thing I’ve ever performed from Survivorman, Survivorman: Bigfoot, Past Survival, the brand new Wild Harvest sequence that’s on PBS stations within the States and it’s additionally on my YouTube channel.
There’s a lot of stuff – oh and my music, the brand new music I’m doing. I really like placing stuff up on YouTube and simply making it free for everyone. However you’re so proper, that connection between the VR and the present, some individuals are gonna return and marvel if he’s acquired any episodes after which they discover it on YouTube and there’s an entire channel filled with them. It’s fairly cool.
So far as the VR goes, through the years it might make sense, you assume ‘Why don’t you do a online game?’ you already know, that got here up over and over.
It could be every little thing from ‘Properly, right here’s a very low cost and ugly technique to do it, or attempt to do it one other method it’s like a $35 million funds.’ It simply by no means actually clicked, it simply didn’t appear potential.
I can’t launch crap, I can’t launch stuff that isn’t as much as snuff, isn’t as much as high quality. And alongside comes an previous manufacturing associate of mine who was initially there at first days of Survivorman, a gentleman by the identify of David Brady who has an organization referred to as Cream Productions.
We had stayed in contact, at all times speaking about this or that, we’re at all times hatching little mini plans on what we should always do. He mentioned ‘I’ve acquired this complete wing of Cream Productions that have been actually focusing in on VR.’
They usually’ve performed it, they’ve performed some forays into it in another initiatives. And I mentioned ‘Properly, Survivorman is ideal for VR.’ And forgive me however I don’t actually take a look at it like gaming a lot as I take a look at it prefer it’s a simulator in the identical method that helicopter pilots discover ways to fly a helicopter with a simulator at first, and after we positioned it that method I believed ‘All proper, I can have enjoyable with this, let’s see the place we are able to go along with this.’
However I used to be very hesitant in that, ‘Properly let’s simply see the place it goes’ you already know, this might fall flat on its face. Possibly the manufacturing workforce isn’t going to do their factor or the expertise isn’t going to work.
So we began there, and that was most likely nearly three years in the past. Now I imply, this stuff aren’t in a single day builds you already know, they take a very long time, loads of studying alongside the way in which. In order that’s the place we began.
PSU: What would you like individuals to remove from the expertise of Survivorman VR? Would you like individuals to remove precise survival expertise? Do you see this as each an interactive expertise individuals can have but additionally as an academic device?
Stroud:
Completely. I’m the idealist within the background, proper? It’s my face and identify and model, all that’s positive, that’s no matter. However ultimately, I solely ever did Survivorman to attach individuals to nature and train survival expertise.
I solely ever did loads of the opposite issues I’ve performed for a similar reasoning, identical factor for Survivorman VR. As a result of, you already know I might go right down to the manufacturing workforce and they might say ‘Oh we wish to do that’ and ‘We wish to try this.’
There have been a lot of instances the place I might simply say ‘Properly you possibly can’t try this, that may by no means occur in survival.’ They usually have been so great to work with as a result of they by no means pushed again.
If Les says you possibly can’t try this in survival, we’re not placing it within the recreation. So sure, completely I think about it instructional, however it’s additionally part of the gaming group too, so it’s acquired all that happening.
PSU: Do you consider this as a step in direction of a future the place survival expertise and being extra related with nature turns into extra prevalent for individuals?
Stroud:
It’s a little bit of a paradox, isn’t it? I do know it’s a stretch for any, say, tree-hugger. It’s like ‘You’re not going to catch me taking part in a recreation’ form of factor, however they’re lacking the purpose right here.
Let me return a bit. My entry to nature rising up was watching tv, proper? I’ve watched Jacques Cousteau, I watched Omaha’s Wild Kingdom, and a few Disney exhibits. That was it.
But that instilled with me, continues to be inside me, a strong love of nature, that ultimately I used to be in a position to get out in nature myself. So I take a look at it the identical method, I feel that if there’s a connectedness to nature available, in the event you’re taking part in Survivorman VR: The Descent, I can think about that even when only one individual is doing that, they usually end and go ‘You understand what, I don’t know why I simply acquired to go exterior.’
I feel that what’ll occurred, even when they don’t know why, it’s that they’ve been on this factor, studying these expertise, and possibly I’m being just a little bit naïve or altruistic, I’m undecided, however I feel sure, sure is the quick reply.
I feel it positively opens up a potential portal, irrespective of how skinny it is perhaps for individuals to recollect nature. How about that?
PSU: What was behind the selection to make it an Arctic-based recreation, to do the Arctic first?
Stroud:
Properly that was all Andrew, the designer Andrew Macdonald. I type of let…I might have gone otherwise, however I’m not the one doing the 12 hours a day in entrance of some mega computer systems.
So it’s like, ‘Properly what do you wish to do?’ proper, and that’s the place he began so I simply didn’t push again. ‘Okay, you’re going to go proper to the Arctic space. Can’t we simply begin in you already know, Higher New York State can be positive?’ Nope, proper to the Arctic.
In order that was actually extra Andrew, that was the place they [Cream Productions] needed to go. So then I turned all of it on their heads and go ‘Okay, however in the event you’re gonna go there,’ after which I begin correcting and correcting and fixing and holding their toes to the hearth for authenticity.
And I’ll pre-empt certainly one of your questions which I’m certain will come on the finish about ‘are there different places?’ oh man there are 1000 different places.
PSU: Would beginning in upstate New York have been your first alternative if it was as much as you?
Stroud:
Yeah most likely. I’m nonetheless an teacher in a method, I’ll by no means not be, I nonetheless geek out on that stuff. If I’m going for a hike or snowshoe hike with my spouse I would go ‘Hey, the place would you make a shelter in the event you needed to?’ and it’s not like I’m doing survival by myself now, you already know, I don’t have to.
However I’m nonetheless a geek about it. I like beginning small and you already know, begin easy, temperate forest within the summertime or one thing like that. However I feel you already know, I imply Andrew [Macdonald] had some good factors with it.
I imply for one factor, it’s a recreation too, so it’s acquired to be thrilling. Look, suspension of disbelief can also be a beautiful factor. You understand, I don’t go full bore, I don’t do actuality tv and I don’t consider in mendacity to my viewers.
However by the identical token, making it thrilling issues. That’s why as Survivorman, I ultimately went to the Arctic and to the jungles and deserts. So it’s type of only a very thrilling technique to kick issues off.
PSU: You talked about how the thought to make a online game had been tossed your method earlier than, however that it by no means appeared to make sense. Now that it has with Survivorman VR, was there ever a second alongside the way in which the place you checked in on manufacturing or tried one thing new within the recreation and have been actually stunned by the expertise concerned?
Stroud:
Oh sure, completely. In good methods and dangerous methods. It took me some time to recover from the truth that I used to be dwelling in a dream world, I although it might simply be excellent. You understand, I might look excellent, and it might be, you already know. However I used to be dwelling in a world the place I’m evaluating it to, you already know, the budgets of Marvel Studios.
It’s like, ‘Properly, if they’ll make a cartoon look precisely like Robert Downey Jr., why can’t my VR appear like that,’ however I used to be being unrealistic. So it took me awhile to step again and go, ‘Okay, that is nonetheless a piece in progress.’
However Andrew and the workforce at Cream, they aren’t simply utilizing platforms that exist and making Survivorman VR. They’re inventing platforms and inventing the method as they go and are bettering it continuously. And I noticed that.
At first I used to be, ‘You understand, hey, why doesn’t that look higher?’ You understand, after which the subsequent time round, it did. ‘Oh, okay.’ And the subsequent time after that it regarded even higher. So I noticed progress. The place is it going? The skies the restrict now.
Now, as you would possibly know, loads of issues come right down to funds, and we’re simply getting going with this. I’ll hope that in the future we’ve that type of limitless, you already know, Marvel Studios-size funds, however for now we’re positively pushing the envelope big with the budgets we’ve, and making what I feel is one thing that’s actually highly effective.
The realism in it, so, clearly once more they’re suspending some disbelief, I pop up on display screen. So it’s me, not solely is it me talking the voice, however after we would report these, any scripting they might do I might throw out and say I’m gonna do it my method. So that you’re additionally getting my character, not simply me studying the script that the VR builders assume I ought to say for that specific second whenever you come over to the hilltop.
I’m saying, ‘Properly, I wouldn’t even say that. However right here’s what I might say.’ I like that. I feel we’re bringing the realism in nicely with my very own character shining via as a result of I’m establishing that, ensuring it does. And I can go advert nauseum into the main points of the survival aspect of it and the methods I might push the builders to do it appropriately.
It’s a good distance round answering your query, however I’m very pleasantly stunned. I went from excessive expectations that I had, introduced right down to actuality after which they’ve gone proper again up once more.
PSU: After I was wanting again at previous Survivorman episodes, I used to be caught by one thing you mentioned within the unique documentary that grew to become the pilot episode. Regardless of how tough it may be to outlive in nature, you referred to as the expertise “soul-filling” to be so far-off from the “trappings of society.” So then the place do you sq. the VR recreation with the soul-filling expertise? Do you continue to assume that ‘soul-filling’ high quality is part of Survivorman VR: The Descent?
Stroud:
It’s a fantastic query as a result of it might be very easy simply to maintain it hardcore. You understand, it’s nearly survival expertise. And in reality, it was Andrew who – I imply, I pity the fellows, Andrew and the workforce as a result of I don’t know what number of episodes of Survivorman they’ve needed to watch or how usually they’ve needed to watch the identical episode to see the sorts of issues I do to convey that into the VR.
However by the identical token, they picked up on the truth that I do precisely what you’re speaking about. So sure, that’s really a part of the expertise. There’s a second in there, the place I come to the sting of the mountain and we glance out throughout the mountain, and that’s what we speak about. How stunning it’s.
So sure, we positively squared that up, and it wasn’t even my thought, that was simply Andrew who mentioned ‘Hey, I used to be occupied with doing this, what do you assume?’ and I mentioned ‘Properly I wouldn’t have even thought that we might have needed to place that in there.’ At the same time as a lot as I might have needed to place it in, and I’m so glad they did. And we’ll proceed with that, completely.
Since you’re proper, it’s fulfilling to be out in nature like that. I wrote a kids’s ebook referred to as Wild Outdoors, it was directed in direction of 7-12’s, it was simply to get them again out in nature once more, me giving them concepts and issues they’ll do, and it may be within the yard.
And that has at all times been my mission, with Survivorman, and even the VR, it’s actually what I’m doing is facilitating expertise. A talent set which may simply make you a bit extra snug the subsequent time you go on a hike in Algonquin Park, the subsequent time you go on a path in your neighborhood.
So yea, that’s positively a part of it. I imply, the abilities are simply that, there expertise they usually’re enjoyable. However ultimately, you notice ‘Oh, I do know what to do now, on this state of affairs.,’ due to Survivorman and Survivorman VR, which I feel is fairly cool.
Earlier than you go on to your subsequent query I simply wish to make it identified, I’m additionally thrilled at this, you already know I cherry decide what to do with my profession today, and I’m doing an terrible lot of music, scored movies, scored all my very own theme songs for my exhibits and I’m at all times performing and I’m releasing three albums this yr beginning February 16, 2024.
So I used to be thrilled after I realized – and we didn’t even give it some thought till midway via – that ‘Why am I not scoring the music for this?’ So I don’t do all of the music on the VR, however I’ve performed a bunch of that and the subsequent one round I’ll simply do all of the music. In order that’s one other thrill.
I convey all of my very own creative intent into this by having the ability to usher in my music, it’s enjoyable.
PSU: Are you able to give me an instance of one thing you bought them so as to add to the sport that wouldn’t have made it in in any other case?
Stroud:
Oh yeah, it’s type of infinite, as a result of, and to their credit score, they have been doing the very best they might however they haven’t gone out and really performed these items. Even in the event you watched my stuff from tv, it’s onerous to get it. So I labored rather a lot with Andrew on the right way to get a fireplace going utilizing charred fabric.
We have been backwards and forwards and backwards and forwards and ‘No, it wouldn’t be a flame Andrew, it might be an ember, it’s not a flame at this stage it’s simply an ember’ after which Andrew would come again and I’d say ‘That’s a large quantity of embers, it might solely be a tiny one.’
So we’d be going backwards and forwards on the positive particulars. That’s me geeking out now on the right way to do charred fabric. Similar factor occurred with snaring a rabbit to get some meals. So how do you snare a Snowshoe Hare? And once more, they watched the present and every little thing, and it’s not proper.
So I’m like ‘Properly we are able to do it within the Arctic, however it’s tough. So we’ve to do it a unique method then you definately’re doing it. The way in which you’re doing it’s as if it have been in a forest, however we’re not in a forest we’re within the Arctic tundra, so it’s important to design it this fashion.’
To their credit score, motor expertise and hand manipulation in VR is difficult, that’s actually tough to indicate. So I’ve to compromise. We’ve a factor the place there’s a component whenever you repel off a cliff, and I used to be like ‘Properly that is simply all flawed,’ you already know?
And the opposite factor we do in areas the place there are larger consultants than I, like, certain, you need survival? Don’t look previous me. Nonetheless on the subject of mountaineering, I imply I’ve performed just a little bit, I acquired a couple of expertise and stuff. I feel I acquired them in touch with Will Gaddd, an skilled in mountaineering to verify, ‘wouldn’t it be a prusik loop? Which carabiner can be used, how tight would that be?’
However then we are able to’t present these positive motor expertise, so right here comes suspension of disbelief, you simply contact on it and it’s tied. And with making snowshoes, you may make a snow shoe the way in which we present it within the recreation, however by the identical token we are able to’t present these motor expertise, so it needs to be what it’s.
However it’s getting higher and higher and we’re in a position to present increasingly on a regular basis.
PSU: So do you assume that in the future Survivorman VR could possibly be the very best sensible survival simulation expertise?
Stroud:
It already is.
I’ll inform you the reality although, you made me consider one thing. I don’t know what’s on the market, and I don’t care. After I make tv, I don’t know what the opposite networks are displaying. I don’t care, I make what I make. I do what I do, and I do it to the very best of my capability and I need it to be at a excessive normal, a top quality bar.
So you already know I don’t know what else is on the market, I don’t know what we’re up in opposition to as a result of I’m not up in opposition to something. You understand after I did Survivorman after which different exhibits got here alongside and have been copying and doing sure issues, and you already know individuals say ‘Properly why don’t you do that’ I don’t care what they’re doing.
I don’t even want to observe them, as a result of I do what I do. Our new sequence Wild Harvest on PBS, we have been the primary on air with a foraging present, and now they’re all over the place. So I get one other little declare, however the actuality is that we have been the primary foraging present on tv and I don’t take a look at what any of the opposite exhibits are doing.
As a result of I do wish to do what I do, from my stage, my normal, keep the place I’m at and be an artist about it as a lot as potential.
PSU: That brings me to a different query I had, do you play any survival video games, have you ever tried anything that’s on the market?
Stroud:
So I’m gonna break everybody’s hearts, I’m not a gamer. I used to be a gamer with my son, with Name Of Obligation 24/7, however after we each drifted away from that I haven’t been a gamer since. So I really feel like I’ve to be just a little apologetic to the gamer group that I’m not a gamer, however I get it.
I used to be a Name Of Obligation addict for some time, and different video games as nicely. However I personally, I’m too busy writing songs and mountain climbing within the woods.
PSU: I get that, can’t precisely take the controller with you on these hikes. You say you’re taking your harmonica with you all over the place in Survivorman, is your harmonica in Survivorman VR: The Descent?
Stroud:
Brief reply: sure.
PSU: Nice.
Stroud:
And, there’s an Easter Egg in there as nicely, in the event you occur to be searching for an enormous, furry strolling creature within the woods, that is perhaps an Easter Egg. Nevertheless it’s not apparent.
PSU: A big-footed creature?
Stroud:
Precisely, some type of creature with massive toes, that is perhaps certainly one of our Easter Eggs. I imply Easter Eggs are clearly type of a factor today, however they’re enjoyable, I really like them.
PSU: Properly I’m glad to have that confirmed. What would you want individuals to remove from this recreation? Do you assume it might be nice if somebody performed this after which had the urge to go tenting?
Stroud:
I do, and that’s why I choose to name it a simulation. Since you’re not chilly, you’re not moist, you’re in your own home, you’re not even drained. However but you’re making an attempt to mentally determine all this stuff out, get it proper and do that. And I feel it simply naturally makes the connection.
It could be onerous to realize a half a dozen expertise or extra from taking part in one thing like this and never bear in mind them whenever you’re exterior. That connection will certainly occur. Clearly that doesn’t occur with every little thing in Survivorman VR, however for lots of it, it does.
I’m not even sure the right way to articulate why or the way it occurs, however simply affiliation, I assume.
It’s actually great, to really create one thing that results individuals personally, extra than simply leisure. I really like entertaining, don’t get me flawed, however that further layer, that further stage is vital, and I like that.
PSU: Whereas the true factor may by no means evaluate to the expertise in Survivorman VR, and you may’t precisely get individuals within the mindset that one thing is ‘reside or die,’ do you assume Survivorman VR is ready to obtain placing gamers in these tense conditions and mindsets?
Stroud:
Properly yeah, loads of that comes right down to the great design of Andrew and the workforce. You may die on this recreation rather a lot, and also you don’t die by surviving appropriately, you die by not surviving, by not doing the appropriate issues.
We’ve acquired movie footage of individuals taking part in it, saying ‘Oh I’m getting too chilly, I’m getting too chilly!’ after they’re sitting in a chair inside. However they’ll really feel that stress. With the watch that we’ve, I overlook the identify of it however there’s a watch that you simply put on, and it’s displaying you your stage of fireside, and that it’s going out.
So that you don’t simply get a fireplace going and stroll away, that fireside goes to exit in the event you don’t take note of it. All this stuff occur in a succession that’s precise, within the subject, and since they occur in that succession it’s important to take note of them. So yeah, there’s a stress and an pleasure, to the entire recreation when you’re taking part in it, to the entire simulation I ought to say.
That I feel was actually type of the purpose, and Andrew and the workforce have been actually good at bringing in some issues that I wouldn’t know the right way to convey them into the gameplay, however they do. You may’t really feel that you simply’re getting chilly, however your watch goes to inform you that you simply’re getting chilly.
Whenever you die, you begin to see this haze that takes over your eyes, and it’s like crystals and stuff coming in since you’re dying of hypothermia, you’re freezing to demise. So sure is the quick reply.
PSU: Mr. Stroud, I can’t thanks sufficient in your time as we speak, it’s been a pleasure and a privilege getting to speak to you about Survivoman and Survivorman VR: The Descent.
Survivorman VR: The Descent is now accessible on PS5 and PS VR2, you possibly can take a look at our assessment right here.